The Judi Awards
Quint
April 21, 1998

From the April 21, 1998 Edition Of Joke A Day:

This is a very special edition of Joke A Day as I'm happy to introduce our Fourth Judi Award Winner. 

I've had a pretty lousy day today.  I've got a major case of the blues I think.  (W. C. Handy, take me home . . . ) Last week I was teaching a class in Cleveland where I only had two students:  one was absolutely brilliant and the other had no business in the class at all.  While I really enjoyed spending time with the student who was intent on the subject, the other one was pretty much a fruitcake.  Getting back in the groove today was very difficult.

Along came poor Quint.  Quint had read this weekend's edition of Joke A Day where I mention Vince Sabio's Humour- Net's legendary "Unsubscribe Fees".  Quint asked me a very simple innocent question and, well, I have to say I did my best to . . . uhhh . . . answer his questions while, frankly, providing my own entertainment to lift myself from the doldrums. (Humor Self Abuse?  Hmmm . . . )

In this case, Quint is blameless.  Clueless, *but* blameless.

This is a LOOOOOOONG one, boys & girls.  If you don't have time to read it, just set it aside.  Or wrap fish with it.

And now -- our Fourth Judi Award Winning Performance:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does Vince really charge an 'unsubscribe' fee from a free service??
- Quint

Quint:

I understand Vince has continued his work on actually getting a patent on the idea of unsubscribe fees.  (You did know that you can patent an idea, didn't you?)  Anyway, yes, joining a listing is free, but there was a seminar a few years ago in Zurich that actually talked about the legality of charging an administrative fee for processing the unsubscribe request.  It stems back to the Internet Standards board (based in Zurich, but I hear they've moved to Knoxville) -- I don't want to bore you with the details. 

What makes this such a bitch is I've considered "unsubscribe fees" for Joke A Day.  Since Vince has a patent pending, I'd have to pay *him* a royalty for every unsub.  Though Vince's list has been around since Moby Dick was a minnow and it's no where near the size of Joke A Day I know how much he makes from unsub fees from HumourNet -- I can't imagine the royalties he'll be raking in from JAD when I start collecting *my* fees, too.  I suppose I'll just have to raise my rates sufficiently to actually *pay* Vince *AND* get the proper amount I'm allowed by statute, too.  It's either that, or move Joke A Day to a country outside of the U.S. and apply for a *foreign patent*.

I suppose the best thing for you is if you're already *on* Vince's list is to download one of this "Unsubscribe Fee Reduction Requests".  It's available as a PDF document somewhere on the site.  (You'll need Adobe Acrobat to read the thing).  You can submit it to Vince at his email address of HumourNet@telephonet.com.  You'll have to make sure to put the reasons *why* you feel you shouldn't have to pay the fee.  Vince has to run it though some damned committee or something (he and Randy Cassingham from "This Is True" has some sort of "Tri Lateral Commission" bullshit going) and then you should get a email response before too long.  The only thing I'd caution is that in rare occasions the committee has decided to *increase* the unsubscribe fees based on financial data included on the form.  Read it all over carefully before you submit it.  If you've got a friend or relative that's a lawyer, you might want to have them glance at it.

Yeah, Vince is pretty much a nice guy except when he comes to his "unsubscribe fees".  He's a stickler on "intellect- ual property" and the S.O.B. *has* been known to use the people locater "Internet Datasystems International Omniresource Tracker" (gotta watch out for those acronyms) to, honest to God, TRACK DOWN people who mess around with those fees. 

Good luck!

Ray
Joke A Day

Wow, I'm really amazed by this. 

Is it necessary for people charging an unsubscribe fee to disclose this when they start using it, or before customers sign up?

One other thing, can you tell me where I can get to the 'people locator' you spoke of?

Thanks for all the information
- Quint

According to the seminar in Zurich, as long as the unsub- scribe fees are referred to annually (which Vince does in his early April edition -- something to do with fiscal years, I think) then this gets around the Federal Unsubscribe Notification NY ("NY" being "Not Yet" public domain information -- you still have to watch out for those acronyms).

You might want to try one of the search engines for the "Internet Datasystems International Omniresource Tracker". I used Infoseek and "Omniresource" and got back over 440 hits.  The url may make use of the acronym'd portion of their name. 

One last thing I forgot to mention about all of this (and it's a little behind the scenes stuff so take care of who you mention this to):  Cathie Walker from amused.com has really taken issue with this whole "unsubscribe fee".  She claims she's found some legal loophole that actually would require Vince to repay those unsubscribe fees he's been collecting AND apply a 157.9% PENALTY assessment (God only knows where the damned agencies get their stupid penalty ratings -- thank the lawyers again).  Like I said, I know how much Vince has actually collected.  (Because he has to make those fiscal reportings public to The Association he and I both belong to, Humor Underwriters North Geography). I took my trusty calculator and figured out what 157.9% of those collected fees would be.  Unbelievable.  Like I said, this is all "behind the scenes" stuff, so keep it under your hat.  I know there was some . . . well, what's the politically correct way of saying this? . . . "thing" between Cathie and Vince at one time so it's an interesting Soap Opera to see the two of them at each others' throats now. 

Take care,

Ray
Joke A Day

---

Well, folks, that's not all. After I ran this in the 4/21 Edition, I also received these emails:

From Dan:
Hello Ray,

Just a short note to tell you to give yourself a Judi.  Anyone who knows anything about patents can tell you that you cannot patent the "unsubscribe." A US Patent can only be given for an idea less than one year old. Additionally, a patent would not be issued because it would not meet the three requirements of a patentability, those being that an idea must be New, Useful, and Non-obvious.  So "Unsubscribes" are public domain.

I am only forwarding this information so that you keep your humorous self abuse factual.  People like quint and millions of others (I don't know why), will actually believe what you tell them because they "Read it on the Internet."

---

Jack asked:

Where DO you get all those acronyms?  Do you make them up?

---

Greg wanted to tell me:

I was scanning through all the quoted "correspondence" between you and "Quint", looking for your Joke of the Day, and when I found the e-mail footer, I realized that the "correspondence" was supposed to be the "Joke".  NOT a good representation of "humor".  Up until now, the jokes have been good.  But to read "mail" that is deemed "humorous" and intended to be between two other people, is not the expected "Joke" that we look forward to. Acronyms, or not, just send us a joke that we can laugh at.

---

Lindsay had this to say:
I'm not entirely sure why you sent us this whole thing about unsubscribe fees.  This Vince guy sounds like a bit of a prick if you ask me.  It's just another way that corporations use legal loopholes to screw the little guy.  If you start charging an unsubscribe fee, I won't unsubscribe, even if I change or cancel my e-mail address.  And you'll be sending messages to no one for as long as your service exists.  I guess I shouldn't be venting my anger on you, it's not your idea.  It just seems like total bullshit. Finally, I don't think this edition of Joke A Day contained any jokes or humor.  What's up with that?

Lindsay

Naturally, I simply had to respond:

Hi, Lindsay:

Well, I don't disagree with you.  You're preaching to the choir, as it is.

Vince really isn't a prick -- he's a pretty nice guy in the grand scheme of things.  A little misguided, perhaps, but the man's in it for the money.  You just can't believe how much Vince collects with his "Unsubscribe Fee".  I guess I'm rather jealous about the whole thing because I didn't think of it first.

What's *really* curious (and this is some more behind the scenes kind of stuff -- I'd appreciate confidentiality on your part) is the Congressional Representative for the 7th district in Ohio is Debra Pryce.  (I live in Columbus).  Somehow she'd read an article about Joke A Day months ago and subscribed.  I thought it was pretty cool.

Anyway, this morning in the mail I received a letter from her office asking me about this whole "Unsubscribe Fee" stuff. I know, it seems like there's plenty of other things to worry about in Congress now, but with the Internet being as hot to commerce as it is, I suppose Congress is taking a look at this and making sure "the little guy" (as you call him) doesn't get screwed over with these kinds of charges. They told me there's some governmental task force going to be in place called the Omnibus Hierarchical Mail Yielding Grant Of Distribution

I feel kind of honored to actually have a hand in having helped CREATE these proceedings.  (Mostly because it's going to boost circulation thru the roof -- but I digress).

So, glad to know you're going to be with me.  Unlike Vince, I'd talk about *my* unsubscribe fees right off the bat so for now you're safe if you do want to take off, I'd understand.

Ray
Joke A Day

---

Only could come from someone at AOL, Deb:

In referance to your letter to Quint, We in Knoxville Md. do not wish to be confused with the Knoxville you mentioned in your letter. Thank you

There's a Knoxville, Maryland? And you're speaking for the whole place???

---

Finally, came this rather threatening letter:

Dear Ray,

Clearly you have taken privileged information too far this time! I represent Ms. Walker and her rights as the Treasurer of H.U.N.G. Due to my diligence as her counsel, I did indeed discover the loophole you so casually mentioned in your correspondence to Quint.

Before I remark about our legal actions, it is necessary to enlighten you regarding your statements about the relationship between Ms. Walker and Vince. First, your information is hearsay.  You will never be allowed to discuss it in the courtroom. (As an aside, all my cases are heard by Judge Judi and she won't take kindly to your awards.) Secondly you need to understand the "thing" between Vince and Ms. Walker was miniscule; VERY miniscule! Not only was the "thing" miniscule it was of no duration. Those two factors combined, lead to no relationship at all. Surely you must understand this.

Our legal maneuvers are based on precedents set by the National Organization Benefitting All Licensed Levity Servers. I've checked their membership roster and both you and Vince are active members.  The Byte And Bit Enterprise Society Wholly Involved To Help Benefit All Licensed Levity Servers, the sister organization to yours, is chaired by my client Ms. Walker. Her interest in collecting these penalties from Vince has garnered her organization's full support!

Should you need to jockey around again with your misgivings you might want to contact me first.

Ionly Hangem
Cheatem and Hangem
Attornys At Law

Since I couldn't keep a straight face with a gun pointed at me:

Dear Ionly:

I looked you up in the Bar Association directory and found that you are indeed a member in good standing of the Association of Scum Sucking Lawyers In Central Kentucky.  Somehow I'm not surprised.

If you had done your due dilgence, you would have seen that I was an invited *speaker* to N.O.B.A.L.L.S. -- NOT an active member.  I was there to demonstrate how the members of that august assocation would be able to aspire to greater heights, any may even one day be allowed in the "Committee Out Jerking Off Nearly Every Sunday, But Absolutely Ban Everywoman".

I can't speak for Mr. Sabio.  In addition to his shortcomings as a humor moderator, you and Ms. Walker may be privvy to additional "areas requiring improvement".  Not only do I don't know, but more importantly, I don't *want* to know. Duration of said "thing" may have been pleasing to both parties at the time, but I'm sure you are aware of the tendency of involved parties to exaggerate (or de-exaggerate) depending on how the "association" continues.

I wish you well.

Ray
Joke A Day

---

The capstone, I hear lastly from Mr. Quint himself:

Ray,

I was very amused when I received this morning's email and a couple questions came up.  First, why would you ask me to keep all this to myself, and later send it all out to a hundred thousand others?  Second, why a Judi award?  I took a few minutes to browse through the previous recipients of this prestigious title on your website and I'm afraid I don't see any similarities between the furious blame and high flame content of all the other emails and the simple question I asked in mine.  Anyway, I look forward to seeing this up on your website, and again, thanks for the information.  Oh, before I go, one other interesting point I learned from this - if ever I need to unsubscribe from a list charging 'unsubscribe fees' - you've shown me how to do this without getting charged!

Take it easy,
- Quint

Hey Quint:

Thank you, sir, I will take it easy.  Watch those unsub fees closely and thanks for writing,

Ray
Joke A Day

---

I would appreciate any info on a cost to unsubscribe. I subscribed to Joke A Day this week and read something about an unsubscribe charge but did not give it consideration do to other info I had read on your page. Today I read about said charges on one of the sites you mentioned and I would like to know if such charge applies to your site.

Thank you,

Ralph

Ralph, sorry for the delay in getting back to you, but I'm afraid I have some bad news.

I checked the DNS Undertarriff Handling charge chart for your domain, wideopen.net.  Ironicly, that's probably how I'd describe it:  "Wide Open".  This means that the *minimum* charge is . . . are you sitting down? . . . $75 for processing the unsubscribe fee. 

If you were with some other domain, I could probably get the handling charge whittled down some.  I think there's a download from the National Unified Tarriff I can get my hands on that will show me what all I can do.

In the meantime, just hang tight.  There's no need to do any- thing as long as you don't unsubscribe.  You might want to drop HumourNet a letter at humournet@telephonet.com and register your complaint about the whole damned thing.

Uh oh, I just thought of something.  Boardwatch Magazine this month unveiled their plans for the "postage due" email scheme which HumourNet probably joined.  That means it'll COST you $0.32 (just like a stamp) to send the email.  HN will get $0.15 to READ the thing.  The other 17 cents is distributed among various bean counters along the way. It's some part of the Simplied Handling Instruction Tarriff FOR Basic Reduction And Increased Network Streamlining.

Just hang tight.  We'll get to the bottom of this yet . . .

Ray
Joke A Day

---

June 21, 1998

At 08:31 AM 6/20/98 -0500, abraxas wrote:

Do you know hao I can unsubscribe to bawdynet.  I have requested to be unsubscribed, however, it has not happened.

You CAN'T unsubscribe from Bawdy.Net.  Honestly.

You see, Bawdy.Net is based in Canada.  I'm not sure where you are (and it doesn't really matter) because according to Canadian law once you're placed on a list there, you need permission from the list owner to be removed from that list.

And that's the beauty of the whole thing -- since you have to have the list owner's permission to be removed and since Bawdy.Net makes money from each subscription, it wouldn't be in their interest to take you off the list.  You're stuck.  Or as Bawdy.Net would say, "you're stuck and fucked."

How do they make money from you?  You remember that last little increase your ISP gave you on your basic rate? That little increase came about because Bawdy.Net sent your ISP a notice telling them you were a subscriber and to send your subscription fees directly to Bawdy.Net.  What?  You haven't noticed a fee increase?  You better go check your bank statements, bucko.  It's there.  If your ISP didn't inform you about it, that's an issue you have to take up with them.

I'm thinking seriously about moving Joke A Day's site to Canada.  I could use the money.  But yeah, there's absolutely no way to remove your email address from Bawdy.Net.  You really should read the fine print before subscribing to a listing to avoid this in the future.  For now, listings based in the United States, Ghana, and Fiji are safe.  (These are also the only countries that still use feet, miles, and gallons, by the way).

The only way out of there is to get a new email account and close the one you have now.

Take care,

Thanks for the reply it was most informative. I don't recall seeing anything saying I could not unsubscribe to bawdynet.  If I had I would not have subscribed.  I guess I have to go on an education campaign so others want make the same mistake.  There ought to be something I can do. I truly resent the fact that I can't get rid of these people. Unless you are getting some kind of kick back (no offense intended) maybe the next time you mention them in your mailing you can add the fact that you can't unsubscribe.  That would have stopped me from subscribing. Thanks again for the reply.

No, I'm not getting a kickback.  The same law that allows Canadian listings to not unsubscribe you prevents those same firms from having to share revenue with lists like mine.  In addition, because of this law, I'm *prohibited* from telling people about this thing, too. 

There was another list owner here in the U.S. who started to help people unsubscribe from listings that he had nothing to do with.  He was very diligent, submitted the proper paperwork to the proper people and damned if he wasn't hit with a lawsuit over the whole thing.  The Canadian list owner was able to bring suit under some International Diversified Internet Operating Treaty where he claimed harassment against the US list owner.  Hell, the US list owner was just trying to be helpful, but those damned Canadians will screw you over every time.  (I'm all for putting that 20 foot wall back up along the US/Canadian border again).  I'm sorry -- but I get so emotional about this -- the US list owner was a friend of mine.  After the lawsuit, he just, damn, kind of "lost his way".  I know he gave up surfin' the 'Net right away, all computers shortly thereafter. He divorced his wife of 15 years and the last time I talked to him he was heading to Mexico to "work on a shrimp boat and drink tequilla". 

(excuse me -- tears on the keyboard)

I think you DO have the right idea about starting up an education campaign to tell people about things like this.  If I were you, I'd head over to the newsgroups.  I am giving you full permission to print my letters to you in this regard to rec.humor if you like. That's a big humor newsgroup which is read by hundreds of thousands of people.  You should warn them of the dangers of subscribing to email listings in Canada. 

Take care,